John 17:5,24

From Reconciling understandings of Scripture and Science
(Redirected from John 17:24)
Jump to navigationJump to search

BibleNew TestamentJohn


5 So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed.
. . .
24 Father, I desire that those also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory, which you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.

New Revised Standard Version Bible, copyright © 1989 the Division of Christian Education of the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States of America. Used by permission. All rights reserved.

A Faith Based on the Lord Jesus Christ

This prayer of the Lord's, and John's teaching, refers to the glory that he had with the Father before the world began. The need for the Redeemer was foreseen before the world began, before any transgression. He is the centre of God's glorious project, not merely the solution to a problem that arose one day.
It is sometimes suggested that by "the world" in this verse (κόσμος cosmos) Jesus was referring to a new order of things that began with his birth, or with his baptism; but see 2 Timothy 1:9-10 and other passages cited at Before the foundation of the world.

On the other hand, faith centred on the Lord Jesus Christ has been criticised as a weakness arising from acceptance of evolution:

  • TE [Theistic Evolution], with its allegorical reading of early Genesis would involve a Christ-based faith only, not Adam-based. It therefore misconstrues the straight forward teaching of Jesus and the significance of his sacrifice.
Comment on Creation/EC/TE - Bible implications (last paragraph)
  • "Theistic evolution would encourage us to read the early chapters of Genesis 'in a figurative, non-literal way' and to have a Christ based faith, not an Adam based faith. This is simply not how the rest of Scripture views early Genesis."
Bernard Burt, The Bible Magazine, Vol 31 Issue 3 (July 2018), p.41

Bible Cosmology

Reading verse 24 literally, we might understand that the Lord Jesus Christ accepted the literal foundation of the world as clearly taught in many Old Testament passages (see chain references below), though contrary to the modern scientific concept of heliocentrism. See Theistic Heliocentrism for the comparison between Heliocentrism and Evolution: neither Astronomy nor Evolution necessarily denies the hand of God by studying natural causes and effects.


← prev. . . . Chain of references to Geocentrism.     Back to beginning of chain