The Origin of Mortality

Reconciliation Challenge PQRC 7 — The Origin of Mortality

On the basis of Romans 5:12,17-19 it is said that there was no mortality or death in the world before they commenced with Adam, about seven thousand years ago, and that if humans or other creatures existed before Adam, they must have been immortal or "something else". On the other hand there is scientific evidence that living things have been dying for millions of years. Can these be reconciled?

Suggested Appraised Formulated Discussed Conclusions here here

PQRC 7: Reconciliation challenge

P, Q or RC?	Reconciliation Challenge
Description:	On the basis of Romans 5:12,17-19 it is said that there was no mortality or death in the world before they commenced with Adam, about seven thousand years ago, and that if humans or other creatures existed before Adam, they must have been immortal or "something else". On the other hand there is scientific evidence that living things have been dying for millions of years. Can these be reconciled?
Comment by proposer:	This is based on the review of a video by Ron Cowie that was forwarded to me by Daphne. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYQMY6TwXVM&list=PLapIoMHXBxJ9icjxg885kQnvMro-toPZW

• understanding(s) of Scripture:
  (Premature discussion moved to the Talk page - i.e. "discussion" tab - pending agreement on a concise formulation of the problem here. Bruce)
  • God "implanted a physical law of decay" in Adam, which everyone inherits. See superseded 1873 Statement of Faith.
  • Adam was sentenced to death, and the sentence "defiled him and became a physical law of his being" as per current BASF, variously understood:
    • SOMETIMES: synonymous with "implantation" as per 1873 Statement — sometimes also seen as introducing predation and death into all of nature (compare here) — Adam was sentenced to become mortal, and the sentence was carried out on the same day
    • OR: a physical change in Adam's "state", perhaps heritable, perhaps the result of his expulsion from Eden
    • OR:All animal life is mortal, including human life, of which Adam and Eve are representative: eating forbidden fruit gives knowledge of good and evil
  • Roman Catholic "Original Sin": inherited deprivation of holiness and justice since Adam's Fall; sometimes inherited guilt
  • Greek Orthodox "Ancestral Sin": our natural mortality causes sinfulness

• discoveries of Science:
  • The fossil record is the remains of living things, now dead, preserved in stone over hundreds of millions of years
  • Death, including apoptosis (programmed cell death) is essential to the proper functioning of multicellular life, including human life.
  • Ecological systems require the death of prey to provide food to predators.

• summary of the Reconciliation Challenge:

Belief in a pre-Fall creation in which there was no human or animal death is not compatible with modern science, especially in the fields of Geology and Biology.

Editors' endorsement of this summary of the problem

We agree that this is an accurate statement of the problem.
BP	Paul	~	~	~

Solutions already proposed

• by Christadelphians

• by others

Christadelphians arguing against any resolution

N.B. "Resolution" here refers, as above, to resolving these:

• the belief that there was no mortality or death in the world before they commenced with Adam, about seven thousand years ago . . . 
• scientific evidence that living things have been dying for millions of years

The original stimulus relates to the Youtube lecture cited above. Similar ideas were presented in a Zoom lecture "Theistic Evolution" on 12 March 2021 to an Zoom conference called Challenges to Faith, also published on Youtube but now hard to find. See slides and discussion of this latter talk here.

Relevant Scriptures

Romans 5:12-19

Genesis 3:22-24

Free Discussion

(Premature discussion moved to talk page pending summary of the problem above and agreement above that it is an accurate statement of the problem. &mdash Bruce (talk) 01:05, 3 December 2018 (UTC) )

Editors' endorsement that enough discussion has been had for the present purpose.

We agree that this matter has been adequately discussed and can proceed to decision-making.
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Our conclusion(s)

PQRC 7